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(rant) Android 11 removes camera choice
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Eli the Bearded
Jul 27, 2021, 7:08:01 PM7/27/21
to
This is old news, but it has recently bitten me, and a huge fuck you to
person that decided this was the best way to fix the problem.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/20/21376391/google-android-11-third-party-camera-picker-intents
Google is making a change in Android 11 that will force apps that
want to take photos or video to use the phone's built-in camera app
-- even if you've made a different camera app, like OpenCamera, your
default choice for photos.
"[W]e believe it's the right trade-off to protect the privacy and
security of our users," the Android engineering team wrote on August
17th, adding that apps that call on the camera would need to
explicitly name each and every third-party camera app they'd like to
support. Now, Google's giving us the reason: it's to keep bad actors
from potentially harvesting your location.
This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
Later in the article:
That's an important distinction because it means those apps can't
phone home with your location. Google has updated its guidance to
developers to explain what this is really all about: the company is
worried about apps that might ask for photos so they can quietly
track your location. When you take a photo, it's sometimes
geotagged with the GPS coordinates where you took that picture, and
a non-camera app could steal that by piggybacking on a camera app,
even if you'd never granted the original app that location
permission.
It's a thing: Shutterfly was accused of harvesting GPS coordinates
from EXIF metadata back in 2019, and other apps have tried
different tactics to get around Android's permissions system.
So, rather than just simply stripping EXIF for privacy reasons when
other programs invoke the camera, just remove user choice about what
camera program to use.
Originally, the new behavior surprised Android programming book
author Mark Murphy so much that he submitted it as a bug, only for
Android engineers to confirm that it was "intended behavior."
Links to:
https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/162643544?pli=1#comment6
Status: Won't Fix (Intended Behavior)
Response from the engineering team:
================================
Yes, this is working as intended. If apps wish to use 3P cameras to
handle their intent, they have the option of setting an explicit
handler package name or component (using Intent#setClassName /
setPackage / setComponent).
While this makes the handling of the not very common case mentioned
here more complicated, we believe it's the right trade-off to
protect the privacy and security of our users.
"OS" level apps like whatever handles power button double click while
the phone is locked, naturally, can't be easily swapped because reasons.
I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
Elijah
------
can't wait for real alternatives to Android / Ios duopoloy
person that decided this was the best way to fix the problem.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/20/21376391/google-android-11-third-party-camera-picker-intents
Google is making a change in Android 11 that will force apps that
want to take photos or video to use the phone's built-in camera app
-- even if you've made a different camera app, like OpenCamera, your
default choice for photos.
"[W]e believe it's the right trade-off to protect the privacy and
security of our users," the Android engineering team wrote on August
17th, adding that apps that call on the camera would need to
explicitly name each and every third-party camera app they'd like to
support. Now, Google's giving us the reason: it's to keep bad actors
from potentially harvesting your location.
This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
Later in the article:
That's an important distinction because it means those apps can't
phone home with your location. Google has updated its guidance to
developers to explain what this is really all about: the company is
worried about apps that might ask for photos so they can quietly
track your location. When you take a photo, it's sometimes
geotagged with the GPS coordinates where you took that picture, and
a non-camera app could steal that by piggybacking on a camera app,
even if you'd never granted the original app that location
permission.
It's a thing: Shutterfly was accused of harvesting GPS coordinates
from EXIF metadata back in 2019, and other apps have tried
different tactics to get around Android's permissions system.
So, rather than just simply stripping EXIF for privacy reasons when
other programs invoke the camera, just remove user choice about what
camera program to use.
Originally, the new behavior surprised Android programming book
author Mark Murphy so much that he submitted it as a bug, only for
Android engineers to confirm that it was "intended behavior."
Links to:
https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/162643544?pli=1#comment6
Status: Won't Fix (Intended Behavior)
Response from the engineering team:
================================
Yes, this is working as intended. If apps wish to use 3P cameras to
handle their intent, they have the option of setting an explicit
handler package name or component (using Intent#setClassName /
setPackage / setComponent).
While this makes the handling of the not very common case mentioned
here more complicated, we believe it's the right trade-off to
protect the privacy and security of our users.
"OS" level apps like whatever handles power button double click while
the phone is locked, naturally, can't be easily swapped because reasons.
I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
Elijah
------
can't wait for real alternatives to Android / Ios duopoloy
kelown
Jul 28, 2021, 4:30:16 AM7/28/21
to
> That's an important distinction because it means those apps can't
> phone home with your location.
Chris Green
Jul 28, 2021, 4:33:03 AM7/28/21
to
Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
[snip rant]
A much safer security philosophy would, IMHO, be to make everything
open and advertise it as such. Then everyone would known that, unless
*they* take measures to protect something it will in general be
visible to others.
It's what happens in practice much of the time anyway!
An old example is what I always say about E-Mail, it's like a
postcard, anyone can read it while it's on its way. This is no longer
entirely true but it's still the way one should treat E-Mail unless
you take measures *yourself* to protect it.
--
Chris Green
·
[snip rant]
>
> I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
> security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
> datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
>
I agree almost entirely.
> I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
> security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
> datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
>
A much safer security philosophy would, IMHO, be to make everything
open and advertise it as such. Then everyone would known that, unless
*they* take measures to protect something it will in general be
visible to others.
It's what happens in practice much of the time anyway!
An old example is what I always say about E-Mail, it's like a
postcard, anyone can read it while it's on its way. This is no longer
entirely true but it's still the way one should treat E-Mail unless
you take measures *yourself* to protect it.
--
Chris Green
·
Carlos E. R.
Jul 28, 2021, 6:58:56 AM7/28/21
to
On 28/07/2021 10.24, Chris Green wrote:
> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> [snip rant]
>>
>> I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
>> security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
>> datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
>>
> I agree almost entirely.
>
> A much safer security philosophy would, IMHO, be to make everything
> open and advertise it as such. Then everyone would known that, unless
> *they* take measures to protect something it will in general be
> visible to others.
No.
> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> [snip rant]
>>
>> I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
>> security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
>> datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
>>
> I agree almost entirely.
>
> A much safer security philosophy would, IMHO, be to make everything
> open and advertise it as such. Then everyone would known that, unless
> *they* take measures to protect something it will in general be
> visible to others.
It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
paul
Jul 28, 2021, 9:54:54 AM7/28/21
to
kelown wrote on 28.07.2021 10:30
I think it's great people report the news about Android on this newsgroup.
I have Android 11 but I hadn't noticed this behavior until the OP mentioned
it, even as I use OpenCamera, SimpleCamera, and the Google Gcam ports.
My feeling is that Google implemented a sophomoric solution, much as Apple
almost always seems to implement (by dumb yet Draconian locking of all the
users' options, which doesn't take all that much by way of design to do).
It's kind of like how Google forced us to turn on Location just to check
Wi-Fi signal strength (which itself doesn't need Location), where I suspect
Google did that more to force people to keep Location on so _they_ could
benefit (given most people take the easiest way out by leaving it on).
Luckily the market (and Google) allowed full time location spoofing (with or
without location on) which allows us to at least spoof that location.
Interestingly, the Wi-Fi graphing apps works just fine without Location
being accurate (which is why it's a sophomoric solution by Google as it was
clearly unnecessary to force us to turn Location on just to graph Wi-Fi
signal strength at home).
To be clear, Google pulls sleazy hidden tricks with Location when it's in
the act of being turned on, so this is perhaps just another Google trick.
As an example of Google's sleazy tricks, when you turn on Location from the
Google Map "Activity", sleazy things happen which don't happen with _any_
other app that turns on the location "Activity", simply because all apps
except Google apps use the Android settings Activity while the Google apps
use the "gms" (Google Mobile Services" Activities (which do sleazy things).
com.android.settings.Settings$locationSettingsActivity
versus
com.google.android.gms.location.settings.LocationAccuracyActivity
While that hidden sleazy trick by Google is the worst offender that I know
of, there are other hidden sleazy tricks by Google I've found.
For example, "Opt out of Ads Personalization" is automatically turned off
and "Emergency Location Service" & "Send ELS Location" is automatically
turned on and "Find My Device" is automatically turned on (even if you had
them all off, as I do) whenever you clear your cache using the "Google Play
services storage" built in "Activity".
com.google.android.gms.co.g.Space
Who knows what _else_ is secretly turned on when you clear your GPS cache.
Once you know those are turned on, you can set up a series of homescreen
shortcuts to subsequently turn them back off any time you reset cache.
1.
Shortcut name: "Ad ID Reset"
Shortcut Activity: com.google.android.gms.ads.settings.AdsSettingsActivity
Action: Slide "Opt out of Ads Personalization" back to the off position.
2.
Shortcut name: "Location"
com.google.android.gms.security.settings.SecuritySettingsActivity
Action: Turn "Emergency Location Service" back to the off setting.
or
Shortcut name: "Google location settings"
com.google.android.location.settings.GoogleLocationSettingsActivity
Action: Turn "Emergency Location Service" back to the off setting.
or
Shortcut name: "Emergency Location Service"
com.google.android.gms.thunderbird.settings.ThunderbirdSettingsActivity
Action: Slide "Send ELS Location" back to the off position.
or
3.
Shortcut name: "Find My Device"
com.google.android.gms.mdm.settings.AdmSettingsActivity
Action: Slide "Security" > Find My Device" back to the off position.
4. It may even turn Earthquake Alerts on (I have to doublecheck that).
<https://9to5google.com/2021/04/28/android-earthquake-alerts-warning/>
--
The Android newsgroup allows adults to discuss topics of technical interest.
>> That's an important distinction because it means those apps can't
>> phone home with your location.
>
> Sounds good to me.
Hi kelown,
>> phone home with your location.
>
> Sounds good to me.
I think it's great people report the news about Android on this newsgroup.
I have Android 11 but I hadn't noticed this behavior until the OP mentioned
it, even as I use OpenCamera, SimpleCamera, and the Google Gcam ports.
My feeling is that Google implemented a sophomoric solution, much as Apple
almost always seems to implement (by dumb yet Draconian locking of all the
users' options, which doesn't take all that much by way of design to do).
It's kind of like how Google forced us to turn on Location just to check
Wi-Fi signal strength (which itself doesn't need Location), where I suspect
Google did that more to force people to keep Location on so _they_ could
benefit (given most people take the easiest way out by leaving it on).
Luckily the market (and Google) allowed full time location spoofing (with or
without location on) which allows us to at least spoof that location.
Interestingly, the Wi-Fi graphing apps works just fine without Location
being accurate (which is why it's a sophomoric solution by Google as it was
clearly unnecessary to force us to turn Location on just to graph Wi-Fi
signal strength at home).
To be clear, Google pulls sleazy hidden tricks with Location when it's in
the act of being turned on, so this is perhaps just another Google trick.
As an example of Google's sleazy tricks, when you turn on Location from the
Google Map "Activity", sleazy things happen which don't happen with _any_
other app that turns on the location "Activity", simply because all apps
except Google apps use the Android settings Activity while the Google apps
use the "gms" (Google Mobile Services" Activities (which do sleazy things).
com.android.settings.Settings$locationSettingsActivity
versus
com.google.android.gms.location.settings.LocationAccuracyActivity
While that hidden sleazy trick by Google is the worst offender that I know
of, there are other hidden sleazy tricks by Google I've found.
For example, "Opt out of Ads Personalization" is automatically turned off
and "Emergency Location Service" & "Send ELS Location" is automatically
turned on and "Find My Device" is automatically turned on (even if you had
them all off, as I do) whenever you clear your cache using the "Google Play
services storage" built in "Activity".
com.google.android.gms.co.g.Space
Who knows what _else_ is secretly turned on when you clear your GPS cache.
Once you know those are turned on, you can set up a series of homescreen
shortcuts to subsequently turn them back off any time you reset cache.
1.
Shortcut name: "Ad ID Reset"
Shortcut Activity: com.google.android.gms.ads.settings.AdsSettingsActivity
Action: Slide "Opt out of Ads Personalization" back to the off position.
2.
Shortcut name: "Location"
com.google.android.gms.security.settings.SecuritySettingsActivity
Action: Turn "Emergency Location Service" back to the off setting.
or
Shortcut name: "Google location settings"
com.google.android.location.settings.GoogleLocationSettingsActivity
Action: Turn "Emergency Location Service" back to the off setting.
or
Shortcut name: "Emergency Location Service"
com.google.android.gms.thunderbird.settings.ThunderbirdSettingsActivity
Action: Slide "Send ELS Location" back to the off position.
or
3.
Shortcut name: "Find My Device"
com.google.android.gms.mdm.settings.AdmSettingsActivity
Action: Slide "Security" > Find My Device" back to the off position.
4. It may even turn Earthquake Alerts on (I have to doublecheck that).
<https://9to5google.com/2021/04/28/android-earthquake-alerts-warning/>
--
The Android newsgroup allows adults to discuss topics of technical interest.
sms
Jul 28, 2021, 11:30:55 AM7/28/21
to
On 7/27/2021 4:08 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
<snip>
> I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
> security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
> datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
>
> Elijah
> ------
> can't wait for real alternatives to Android / Ios duopoloy
In iOS there is somewhat of a workaround as detailed here:
<https://www.dpreview.com/news/5924193276/here-s-how-to-change-the-default-camera-app-in-ios-13-with-a-clever-workaround>.
If it still works.
<snip>
> I fucking hate feeling I can't control my phone with my choices because
> security is too hard to explain to people. (I hate that advertising and
> datamining users is considered acceptable behavior by companies.)
>
> Elijah
> ------
> can't wait for real alternatives to Android / Ios duopoloy
<https://www.dpreview.com/news/5924193276/here-s-how-to-change-the-default-camera-app-in-ios-13-with-a-clever-workaround>.
If it still works.
knuttle
Jul 28, 2021, 12:14:10 PM7/28/21
to
On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
¡V beeshyams Dec 26 '20 at 10:37
Google loves restricting the ability of other companies to collect data,
while Google makes it easier and easier for Google to collect more data
about everyone.
¡V RockPaperLz- Mask it or Casket Dec 26
So instead of Google making their OS more secure, they removed
functionality.
¡V RockPaperLz- Mask it or Casket Dec 26 '20 at 3:27
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/228774/how-do-we-set-the-default-camera-app-in-android-11
Eric Pozharski
Jul 28, 2021, 1:33:09 PM7/28/21
to
with <eli$21072...@qaz.wtf> Eli the Bearded wrote:
> This is old news, but it has recently bitten me, and a huge fuck you
> to person that decided this was the best way to fix the problem.
*SKIP*
> This is old news, but it has recently bitten me, and a huge fuck you
> to person that decided this was the best way to fix the problem.
> can't wait for real alternatives to Android / Ios duopoloy
Seconded. My current android7 is entering its fourth year and I'm
dreadful of when it's going south.
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
The Real Bev
Jul 28, 2021, 2:59:41 PM7/28/21
to
On 07/27/2021 04:08 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
> make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
> say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
I can't imagine wanting to do that.
> This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
> make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
> say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
I hate the way that the default camera makes it so easy to change modes
accidentally and tried several other apps to avoid this. Not happy with
any of them so I gave up. I still have Open Camera , but I don't know
why...
Has anybody found a replacement camera app that they really like?
--
Cheers, Bev
Linux -- the ultimate freebie!
paul
Jul 28, 2021, 4:00:24 PM7/28/21
to
The Real Bev wrote on 28.07.2021 14:59
using a repeatable interval timer with the most timing options of any app.
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/opencamera/>
Although open camera has more features than just a great interval timer.
<https://opencamera.org.uk/>
> Has anybody found a replacement camera app that they really like?
A key advantage of the Google Ccam ports is their increased functionality.
<https://droidfeats.com/gcam/>
An advantage of Simple Camera is the KISS simplicity:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.camera/>
As an example of the KISS simplicity, Simple Camera is the _only_ camera app
I've ever seen that does the switching between flash modes correctly, IMHO.
--
On the adult OS newsgroups, people purposefully help each other out.
> I still have Open Camera , but I don't know why...
IMHO, a key advantage of Open Camera is how fantastic it is in taking photos
using a repeatable interval timer with the most timing options of any app.
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/opencamera/>
Although open camera has more features than just a great interval timer.
<https://opencamera.org.uk/>
> Has anybody found a replacement camera app that they really like?
<https://droidfeats.com/gcam/>
An advantage of Simple Camera is the KISS simplicity:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.camera/>
As an example of the KISS simplicity, Simple Camera is the _only_ camera app
I've ever seen that does the switching between flash modes correctly, IMHO.
--
On the adult OS newsgroups, people purposefully help each other out.
Eli the Bearded
Jul 28, 2021, 5:28:59 PM7/28/21
to
In comp.mobile.android, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 07/27/2021 04:08 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
>> make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
>> say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
> On 07/27/2021 04:08 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
>> make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
>> say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
> I hate the way that the default camera makes it so easy to change modes
> accidentally and tried several other apps to avoid this. Not happy with
> any of them so I gave up. I still have Open Camera , but I don't know
> why...
I use Open Camera by preference. I like the UI, except that it is
> accidentally and tried several other apps to avoid this. Not happy with
> any of them so I gave up. I still have Open Camera , but I don't know
> why...
sometimes too easy to zoom. This happens frequently when I take photos
one handed, I end up having some finger brush the corner of the screen
while reaching for the red take a photo button and zooom...
In my case I dislike that the privacy policy in the default camera app
is all about some online photo sharing service. I will not be using
that, and I have done everything I can to opt out of that, but now I
have to trust that the opt out actually works.
(Also multiple camera apps means more exceptions to my personal
gallery tools which use the EXIF data. Each camera has slightly
different things from experience. I haven't even begun to look hard at
the EXIF in this new app.)
Elijah
------
retains EXIF for personal use but strips it for sharing
Carlos E. R.
Jul 28, 2021, 6:06:44 PM7/28/21
to
On 28/07/2021 18.14, knuttle wrote:
> On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
>> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
>
> Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
> On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
>> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
>
> Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
operating system would do the same.
But they are not the only ones: the police also gets it.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
paul
Jul 28, 2021, 6:31:47 PM7/28/21
to
Eli the Bearded wrote on 28.07.2021 21:28
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aminbeheshti.exifviewer>
And here's a free ad free EXIF editor (e.g., to change dates or location).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.fastphototagger>
Here are a couple of OK free ad free exif erasers (GUIs differ).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.none.tom.exiferaser>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.squiredev.exif_clear>
This will interface with the "Share" menu to remove EXIF data before sharing
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jarsilio.android.scrambledeggsif>
This will even obscure faces and remove metadata before sharing.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.witness.sscphase1>
As always, if someone has better free EXIF management tools, let us know.
--
I won't list an app that isn't free and ad free and almost always gsf free.
> I haven't even begun to look hard at the EXIF in this new app.)
To that end, here's a simple free ad free exif viewer if you need one.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aminbeheshti.exifviewer>
And here's a free ad free EXIF editor (e.g., to change dates or location).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.fastphototagger>
Here are a couple of OK free ad free exif erasers (GUIs differ).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.none.tom.exiferaser>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.squiredev.exif_clear>
This will interface with the "Share" menu to remove EXIF data before sharing
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jarsilio.android.scrambledeggsif>
This will even obscure faces and remove metadata before sharing.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.witness.sscphase1>
As always, if someone has better free EXIF management tools, let us know.
--
I won't list an app that isn't free and ad free and almost always gsf free.
Dean Hoffman
Jul 28, 2021, 6:36:02 PM7/28/21
to
kelown
Jul 28, 2021, 10:17:57 PM7/28/21
to
> Although open camera has more features than just a great interval timer.
> <https://opencamera.org.uk/>
Open Camera.
>> Has anybody found a replacement camera app that they really like?
does so will much more GUI clarity and less fuss than Open Camera or my
default camera.
The Real Bev
Jul 28, 2021, 10:18:23 PM7/28/21
to
On 07/28/2021 02:28 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 07/27/2021 04:08 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>> This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
>>> make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
>>> say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
>> I hate the way that the default camera makes it so easy to change modes
>> accidentally and tried several other apps to avoid this. Not happy with
>> any of them so I gave up. I still have Open Camera , but I don't know
>> why...
This is the Pixel2 with A11....
> In comp.mobile.android, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 07/27/2021 04:08 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>> This boils down to you can run any camera app you want, but you can't
>>> make anything but the native camera app run as default camera, the one
>>> say, that gets turned on by double clicking power button while locked.
>> I hate the way that the default camera makes it so easy to change modes
>> accidentally and tried several other apps to avoid this. Not happy with
>> any of them so I gave up. I still have Open Camera , but I don't know
>> why...
> I use Open Camera by preference. I like the UI, except that it is
> sometimes too easy to zoom. This happens frequently when I take photos
> one handed, I end up having some finger brush the corner of the screen
> while reaching for the red take a photo button and zooom...
>
> In my case I dislike that the privacy policy in the default camera app
> is all about some online photo sharing service. I will not be using
> that, and I have done everything I can to opt out of that, but now I
> have to trust that the opt out actually works.
that that was the default. Opting out worked. I use google photos (I
liked Picasa better, but google killed it), but only for photos I've
edited and shrunk to 1600 pixels max, which they store for free.
> (Also multiple camera apps means more exceptions to my personal
> gallery tools which use the EXIF data. Each camera has slightly
> different things from experience. I haven't even begun to look hard at
> the EXIF in this new app.)
>
> Elijah
> ------
> retains EXIF for personal use but strips it for sharing
>
Cheers, Bev
Save the whales for dessert
paul
Jul 28, 2021, 11:45:36 PM7/28/21
to
kelown wrote on 28.07.2021 21:17
Google GCam takes "better" quality of results photos than any other app.
How does Google do that?
Anyway, to help kelown answer The Real Bev's question, the Google GCam ports
have nice features in addition to somehow (magically?) taking better pics.
My GCam has night mode and panorama and HDR and portrait and slow motion,
and photosphere and lens blur, in addition to a translate to text mode.
The only disadvantage of the Google GCam ports is that for some people the
installation may be too technical as it's specific to the phone model.
<https://www.geekdashboard.com/download-and-install-gcam-with-astrophotography-on-any-android-smartphone/>
One free tool which is indispensable for testing the original camera is
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector>
simply because you can't ever do better than what the phone itself can do.
<https://www.thegeeksclub.com/camera-2-api-check-smartphone-support/>
The Camera-2 Probe will tell you what you can get out of GCam ports.
<https://inerd4u.com/blogs/my-rss-feed/how-to-check-if-camera2-api-is-enabled-on-your-android-device>
--
On Usenet only the purposefully helpful good people provide useful detail.
>>> Has anybody found a replacement camera app that they really like?
>
> I like Google Gcam. It takes slightly better pics than the default, but
> does so will much more GUI clarity and less fuss than Open Camera or my
> default camera.
I like Google GCam ports myself, where I never completely understood _how_
>
> I like Google Gcam. It takes slightly better pics than the default, but
> does so will much more GUI clarity and less fuss than Open Camera or my
> default camera.
Google GCam takes "better" quality of results photos than any other app.
How does Google do that?
Anyway, to help kelown answer The Real Bev's question, the Google GCam ports
have nice features in addition to somehow (magically?) taking better pics.
My GCam has night mode and panorama and HDR and portrait and slow motion,
and photosphere and lens blur, in addition to a translate to text mode.
The only disadvantage of the Google GCam ports is that for some people the
installation may be too technical as it's specific to the phone model.
<https://www.geekdashboard.com/download-and-install-gcam-with-astrophotography-on-any-android-smartphone/>
One free tool which is indispensable for testing the original camera is
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector>
simply because you can't ever do better than what the phone itself can do.
<https://www.thegeeksclub.com/camera-2-api-check-smartphone-support/>
The Camera-2 Probe will tell you what you can get out of GCam ports.
<https://inerd4u.com/blogs/my-rss-feed/how-to-check-if-camera2-api-is-enabled-on-your-android-device>
--
On Usenet only the purposefully helpful good people provide useful detail.
kelown
Jul 29, 2021, 12:05:41 AM7/29/21
to
>>>> Has anybody found a replacement camera app that they really like?
>>
>> I like Google Gcam. It takes slightly better pics than the default, but
>> does so will much more GUI clarity and less fuss than Open Camera or my
>> default camera.
>
> I like Google GCam ports myself, where I never completely understood _how_
> Google GCam takes "better" quality of results photos than any other app.
>
> How does Google do that?
with more clarity and better framing of the shot after I press the
desired focus area. Not a night and day difference, but noticeable.
paul
Jul 29, 2021, 12:44:43 AM7/29/21
to
kelown wrote on 29.07.2021 06:05
where I once asked the rec.photo.digital group _how_ the GCam app can come
up with better quality of results than the native camera app on any given
phone.
Characteristically, the Apple apologists infested the r.p.d thread instantly
turning it into their own personal kindergarten cesspool - but one person -
as I recall - tried to track down the answer to that question by looking at
all the published results. (He even asked for people to upload results from
their phones.)
I just googled for why the GCam photos are better than stock cam photos
<https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-examples-where-the-Google-camera-clicked-better-images-than-your-stock-camera-app>
<https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/why-photos-details-are-better-with-gcam-then-the-stock-camera-app.1011298/>
<https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-difference-between-Phone-inbuilt-camera-VS-Google-camera>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/Xiaomi/comments/dyrzjj/whats_the_benefits_of_gcam_over_the_stock_xiaomi/>
etc.
Notice it's not clear _how_ Google manages to output better quality photos
than the stock camera app, but the good news is almost everyone on Android
can install a GCam port if they're slightly technical (& if they have a
recent enough Android version, & if their phone supports the Camera-2 API).
At the time, journalists were claiming the photos were better quality, but
the few adults on that newsgroup (there aren't many) said it's not likely.
Still - at least the results are decent enough to wonder how Google does it.
And even if the quality of results is the same as the stock camera app,
there are lots of nice features in my various Google GCam ports (I'm on a
Samsung so none of my GCam apps are native) such as "face enhance" and
"night mode" and "google lens" and "slow motion" and "panorama", etc.
Given all of us with the GCam port have multiple camera apps, we can compare
photos, where I find the GCam ports (I have multiple variations) do a better
job than the stock camera in the astrophotography realm, and, of course, the
photo translation is something I don't think any other camera app offers.
--
Usenet should be an adult discussion between helpful intelligent people.
>> I like Google GCam ports myself, where I never completely understood _how_
>> Google GCam takes "better" quality of results photos than any other app.
>>
>> How does Google do that?
>
> I can't answer your question but I will say that Gcam previews the image
> with more clarity and better framing of the shot after I press the
> desired focus area. Not a night and day difference, but noticeable.
I've been putting the Google GCam port on all my phones over the years,
>> Google GCam takes "better" quality of results photos than any other app.
>>
>> How does Google do that?
>
> I can't answer your question but I will say that Gcam previews the image
> with more clarity and better framing of the shot after I press the
> desired focus area. Not a night and day difference, but noticeable.
where I once asked the rec.photo.digital group _how_ the GCam app can come
up with better quality of results than the native camera app on any given
phone.
Characteristically, the Apple apologists infested the r.p.d thread instantly
turning it into their own personal kindergarten cesspool - but one person -
as I recall - tried to track down the answer to that question by looking at
all the published results. (He even asked for people to upload results from
their phones.)
I just googled for why the GCam photos are better than stock cam photos
<https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-examples-where-the-Google-camera-clicked-better-images-than-your-stock-camera-app>
<https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/why-photos-details-are-better-with-gcam-then-the-stock-camera-app.1011298/>
<https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-difference-between-Phone-inbuilt-camera-VS-Google-camera>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/Xiaomi/comments/dyrzjj/whats_the_benefits_of_gcam_over_the_stock_xiaomi/>
etc.
Notice it's not clear _how_ Google manages to output better quality photos
than the stock camera app, but the good news is almost everyone on Android
can install a GCam port if they're slightly technical (& if they have a
recent enough Android version, & if their phone supports the Camera-2 API).
At the time, journalists were claiming the photos were better quality, but
the few adults on that newsgroup (there aren't many) said it's not likely.
Still - at least the results are decent enough to wonder how Google does it.
And even if the quality of results is the same as the stock camera app,
there are lots of nice features in my various Google GCam ports (I'm on a
Samsung so none of my GCam apps are native) such as "face enhance" and
"night mode" and "google lens" and "slow motion" and "panorama", etc.
Given all of us with the GCam port have multiple camera apps, we can compare
photos, where I find the GCam ports (I have multiple variations) do a better
job than the stock camera in the astrophotography realm, and, of course, the
photo translation is something I don't think any other camera app offers.
--
Usenet should be an adult discussion between helpful intelligent people.
Eli the Bearded
Jul 29, 2021, 12:54:39 AM7/29/21
to
In comp.mobile.android, kelown <kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> Nothing in the new directive will prevent you from continuing to use
> Open Camera.
Nothing _prevents_ me from using it. What I am prevented from doing is
> Nothing in the new directive will prevent you from continuing to use
> Open Camera.
using it how I _want_ to: as the default camera. I have no choice now in
what camera is launched by double clicking power button.
Nothing _prevents_ Google from having the OS strip EXIF from photos
given to apps denied permission location, too. They just decided to with
the fuck-you to the user implementation.
Elijah
------
gah
Joerg Lorenz
Jul 29, 2021, 1:26:30 AM7/29/21
to
Am 28.07.21 um 23:40 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
device.
> But they are not the only ones: the police also gets it.
You are spreading fake news!
You are a braindead Troll.
Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
possible with a court order.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
> On 28/07/2021 18.14, knuttle wrote:
>> On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
>>> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
>>
>> Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
>
> It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
> operating system would do the same.
Bullshit. Google has absolutely no rights for anything on a consumer
>> On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
>>> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
>>
>> Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
>
> It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
> operating system would do the same.
device.
> But they are not the only ones: the police also gets it.
You are a braindead Troll.
Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
possible with a court order.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
Chris Green
Jul 29, 2021, 4:03:04 AM7/29/21
to
Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 28/07/2021 18.14, knuttle wrote:
> > On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
> >> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
> >
> > Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
>
> It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
> operating system would do the same.
>
Why? Many computer (including laptop) operating systems don't go down
> On 28/07/2021 18.14, knuttle wrote:
> > On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
> >> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
> >
> > Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
>
> It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
> operating system would do the same.
>
the paranoid privacy path, that leaves the user free to handle things
as they want.
--
Chris Green
·
Carlos E. R.
Jul 29, 2021, 11:07:58 AM7/29/21
to
On 29/07/2021 07.26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 28.07.21 um 23:40 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 28/07/2021 18.14, knuttle wrote:
>>> On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
>>>> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
>>>
>>> Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
>>
>> It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
>> operating system would do the same.
>
> Bullshit. Google has absolutely no rights for anything on a consumer
> device.
Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If you
> Am 28.07.21 um 23:40 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 28/07/2021 18.14, knuttle wrote:
>>> On 7/28/2021 12:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> It would never occur to me that an application to which I have denied
>>>> permission to obtain the location can get the location by making a photo.
>>>
>>> Google is making sure only THEY get the location by default
>>
>> It is their right. You have to trust your operating system. Any phone
>> operating system would do the same.
>
> Bullshit. Google has absolutely no rights for anything on a consumer
> device.
don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS has
access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
>> But they are not the only ones: the police also gets it.
>
> You are spreading fake news!
> You are a braindead Troll.
> Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
> possible with a court order.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Joerg Lorenz
Jul 29, 2021, 12:45:24 PM7/29/21
to
Am 29.07.21 um 17:05 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
and what it can't.
>>> But they are not the only ones: the police also gets it.
>>
>> You are spreading fake news!
>> You are a braindead Troll.
>> Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
>> possible with a court order.
>
> Which they can get as soon as needed. Easy peasy.
Even more fake news and more bullshit!
*PLONK*!
> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If you
> don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS has
> access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
Even more bullshit! You obviously have no clue of Android, what it can
> don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS has
> access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
and what it can't.
>>> But they are not the only ones: the police also gets it.
>>
>> You are spreading fake news!
>> You are a braindead Troll.
>> Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
>> possible with a court order.
>
> Which they can get as soon as needed. Easy peasy.
*PLONK*!
AJL
Jul 29, 2021, 1:55:16 PM7/29/21
to
On 7/29/2021 8:05 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If
> you don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS
> has access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
Google/Android's not the only one. My car's are both attached to the net
> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If
> you don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS
> has access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
and know where I am. (That could be handy if one is ever stolen since it
can be tracked.) My credit card knows where I am when it makes
purchases. My wife's phone knows where she is and it ain't Android.
Course Verizon knows where we both are. My Amazon Fire OS tablet (and
probably also Google since I have the Play Store on it) knows where I am
when I plug it into a hotel. Etc etc etc.
Not being the paranoid type I've long since stopped worrying about it.
Most (all?) are bits and bytes in a server somewhere. (Just like my
medical records BTW which are a bit more sensitive than my location.) If
an actual human Google employee picked me out of their billion+ accounts
to look at, perhaps I should actually feel flattered.
Bottom line: You can't live in our age and stop some server somewhere
from knowing private stuff about you. So relax and enjoy life, live a
little...or not. :-)
paul
Jul 29, 2021, 2:28:41 PM7/29/21
to
Joerg Lorenz wrote on 29.07.2021 07:26
Apple is just better at MARKETING the _illusion_ of privacy - that's all.
If Joerg were a normal person I'd tell him that Apple does the same things
that Google does in terms of throwing its users under the bus on privacy.
*Apple gave the FBI access to the iCloud account of a protester*
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-gave-the-fbi-access-to-the-icloud-account-of-a-protester-accused-of-setting-police-cars-on-fire>
So did Facebook.
*Facebook Gives FBI Private Messages Of Users Discussing Capitol Hill Riot*
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/01/21/facebook-gives-fbi-private-messages-of-users-discussing-capitol-hill-riot/>
As did Parlor.
*Parler helped the FBI identify riot suspect*
<https://www.businessinsider.com.au/parler-shared-information-fbi-capitol-riot-suspect-2021-1>
*They're all the same in terms of handing the feds all your privacy.*
--
Alan Baker, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger, Lewis,
nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name, et al.
are truly despicable people devoid of intelligence or any moral character.
> Even in the privacy-desert North America localisation is legally only
> possible with a court order.
*They're all the same in terms of handing the feds all your privacy.*
> possible with a court order.
Apple is just better at MARKETING the _illusion_ of privacy - that's all.
If Joerg were a normal person I'd tell him that Apple does the same things
that Google does in terms of throwing its users under the bus on privacy.
*Apple gave the FBI access to the iCloud account of a protester*
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-gave-the-fbi-access-to-the-icloud-account-of-a-protester-accused-of-setting-police-cars-on-fire>
So did Facebook.
*Facebook Gives FBI Private Messages Of Users Discussing Capitol Hill Riot*
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2021/01/21/facebook-gives-fbi-private-messages-of-users-discussing-capitol-hill-riot/>
As did Parlor.
*Parler helped the FBI identify riot suspect*
<https://www.businessinsider.com.au/parler-shared-information-fbi-capitol-riot-suspect-2021-1>
*They're all the same in terms of handing the feds all your privacy.*
--
Alan Baker, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger, Lewis,
nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name, et al.
are truly despicable people devoid of intelligence or any moral character.
Carlos E. R.
Jul 29, 2021, 3:36:39 PM7/29/21
to
On 29/07/2021 19.55, AJL wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 8:05 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If
>> you don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS
>> has access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
>> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
> Google/Android's not the only one. My car's are both attached to the net
> and know where I am.
Mine didn't, but I bought a dongle that does. I needed the WiFi that
> On 7/29/2021 8:05 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If
>> you don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS
>> has access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
>> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
> Google/Android's not the only one. My car's are both attached to the net
> and know where I am.
comes with it.
My TomTom car navigator also knows my location, but they swear they
delete it after a week or so and only keep the aggregate or anonymous
data and that they don't share the data with anybody. Of course, I have
to trust them with it, but this time I can opt out. If I do, I
immediately lose the traffic live information, which I want.
> (That could be handy if one is ever stolen since it
> can be tracked.) My credit card knows where I am when it makes
> purchases.
They also have your purchase history. The aggregate data of what is
purchased and where is a very wanted data.
For instance, someone goes to the bank and request a credit to put a
chocolates shop at Bilbo's doorstep. Well, they can look at that
aggregate data to guesstimate if it will be a success or not.
> My wife's phone knows where she is and it ain't Android.
to trust them with that information, trust that they do the right thing.
If you don't, well, simply put, don't use a mobile phone at all.
> Course Verizon knows where we both are. My Amazon Fire OS tablet (and
> probably also Google since I have the Play Store on it) knows where I am
> when I plug it into a hotel. Etc etc etc.
you connect to internet they will know the approximate location. Any web
you load will know, too, unless you use an VPN or Tor.
> Not being the paranoid type I've long since stopped worrying about it.
> Most (all?) are bits and bytes in a server somewhere. (Just like my
> medical records BTW which are a bit more sensitive than my location.) If
> an actual human Google employee picked me out of their billion+ accounts
> to look at, perhaps I should actually feel flattered.
If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee listens
to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI failed to
understand the command. They listen to it and study your voice to learn
why the AI failed and how they can make it work. Improving or studying
purposes, somewhere in the fine print.
>
> Bottom line: You can't live in our age and stop some server somewhere
> from knowing private stuff about you. So relax and enjoy life, live a
> little...or not. :-)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Carlos E. R.
Jul 29, 2021, 3:36:39 PM7/29/21
to
On 29/07/2021 18.45, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 29.07.21 um 17:05 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If you
>> don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS has
>> access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
>> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
> Even more bullshit! You obviously have no clue of Android, what it can
> and what it can't.
LOL :-D
> Am 29.07.21 um 17:05 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> Man, google runs the operating system, an interconnected system. If you
>> don't trust Android, just don't buy it, because of course the OS has
>> access to your location, no matter legislation and rules and
>> demonstrations or waving of hands in anger.
>
> Even more bullshit! You obviously have no clue of Android, what it can
> and what it can't.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
sms
Jul 29, 2021, 5:05:36 PM7/29/21
to
On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<snip>
> I'm not familiar with that tablet, what hardware it has, but as soon as
> you connect to internet they will know the approximate location. Any web
> you load will know, too, unless you use an VPN or Tor.
The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in, nor do the Wi-Fi only
iPads. Most of the Wi-Fi only Android tablets do include a GPS which can
be very useful in some apps.
For a poor-mans Lojack, you can hide a cheap 4G Android phone, with a
charger connected to 12V-Always, with data off, in a place where it can
get a signal. You install an app that receives an SMS and responds with
an SMS with the GPS location, i.e.
<https://github.com/anevero/sms_my_gps>. You sign up for service on a
carrier that doesn't charge a monthly fee, for example, Truphone (AT&T
in the U.S.) is free for incoming SMS, 9¢ for outgoing texts, and has no
monthly charge or monthly minimum
<https://myaccount.truphone.com/en-US/Product/CustomizeProduct> there is
only the initial $30 cost for the SIM card and $15 worth of credit.
There are also non-phone trackers, like a Lojack, that you can use, but
with a service like Truphone; the 4G LTE version of the TKSTAR 915 is
one such device <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002337478851.htm>,
but it costs more than a cheap unlocked 4G Android phone.
<snip>
> I'm not familiar with that tablet, what hardware it has, but as soon as
> you connect to internet they will know the approximate location. Any web
> you load will know, too, unless you use an VPN or Tor.
iPads. Most of the Wi-Fi only Android tablets do include a GPS which can
be very useful in some apps.
For a poor-mans Lojack, you can hide a cheap 4G Android phone, with a
charger connected to 12V-Always, with data off, in a place where it can
get a signal. You install an app that receives an SMS and responds with
an SMS with the GPS location, i.e.
<https://github.com/anevero/sms_my_gps>. You sign up for service on a
carrier that doesn't charge a monthly fee, for example, Truphone (AT&T
in the U.S.) is free for incoming SMS, 9¢ for outgoing texts, and has no
monthly charge or monthly minimum
<https://myaccount.truphone.com/en-US/Product/CustomizeProduct> there is
only the initial $30 cost for the SIM card and $15 worth of credit.
There are also non-phone trackers, like a Lojack, that you can use, but
with a service like Truphone; the 4G LTE version of the TKSTAR 915 is
one such device <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002337478851.htm>,
but it costs more than a cheap unlocked 4G Android phone.
AJL
Jul 29, 2021, 5:07:54 PM7/29/21
to
On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee
> listens to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI
> failed to understand the command. They listen to it and study your
> voice to learn why the AI failed and how they can make it work.
> Improving or studying purposes, somewhere in the fine print.
I've read that about Amazon too. In my old paranoid days I'd put a drop
> If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee
> listens to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI
> failed to understand the command. They listen to it and study your
> voice to learn why the AI failed and how they can make it work.
> Improving or studying purposes, somewhere in the fine print.
of fingernail polish on the tablet lens and mike hole. But no more for
many years now. I've been assimilated. (Isn't that what also happened
to Jean-Luc Picard in an old Star Trek movie? Not sure.)
My Granddaughter's house is completely wired. Her
kids like to impress me by asking Alexa to fart. When she does they
can't stop laughing. Isn't modern technology wonderful...
AJL
Jul 29, 2021, 5:15:43 PM7/29/21
to
On 7/29/2021 2:05 PM, sms wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> I'm not familiar with that tablet [Amazon Fire], what hardware it
> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> has, but as soon as you connect to internet they will know the
>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you
>> use an VPN or Tor.
>
> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover is
>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you
>> use an VPN or Tor.
>
> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
blown...
sms
Jul 29, 2021, 5:59:33 PM7/29/21
to
nospam
Jul 29, 2021, 6:04:10 PM7/29/21
to
In article <sdv8c4$2c7$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >>> I'm not familiar with that tablet [Amazon Fire], what hardware it
> >>> has, but as soon as you connect to internet they will know the
> >>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you use
> >>> an VPN or Tor.
> >>
> >> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
> >
> > Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover is
> > blown...
>
> Not if you're using a VPN.
not necessarily. that depends on a lot of things.
> >>> I'm not familiar with that tablet [Amazon Fire], what hardware it
> >>> has, but as soon as you connect to internet they will know the
> >>> approximate location. Any web you load will know, too, unless you use
> >>> an VPN or Tor.
> >>
> >> The Amazon Fire tablets don't have a GPS built in,
> >
> > Makes no difference. When I plug it in to the hotel WiFi my cover is
> > blown...
>
> Not if you're using a VPN.
AJL
Jul 29, 2021, 7:01:00 PM7/29/21
to
bytes on the hotel's server that know my name, address, license plate
number, CC number, etc? And all those tourist shops in town whose
servers get my info from the CC company? But wait. I think I
fooled them by not using the hotel phone. Instead I used my cell.
They'll never find me or know who I call now. Sneaky huh...
Carlos E. R.
Jul 29, 2021, 7:23:49 PM7/29/21
to
On 29/07/2021 23.07, AJL wrote:
> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee
>> listens to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI
>> failed to understand the command. They listen to it and study your
>> voice to learn why the AI failed and how they can make it work.
>> Improving or studying purposes, somewhere in the fine print.
>
> I've read that about Amazon too. In my old paranoid days I'd put a drop
> of fingernail polish on the tablet lens and mike hole.
On Android, there is an option for that. My phone does not respond to
> On 7/29/2021 12:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> If you use voice commands, it is quite possible that an employee
>> listens to it. There is a percent probability, specially if the AI
>> failed to understand the command. They listen to it and study your
>> voice to learn why the AI failed and how they can make it work.
>> Improving or studying purposes, somewhere in the fine print.
>
> I've read that about Amazon too. In my old paranoid days I'd put a drop
> of fingernail polish on the tablet lens and mike hole.
"Hey google", I have to tap the mic icon first.
> But no more for
> many years now. I've been assimilated. (Isn't that what also happened
> to Jean-Luc Picard in an old Star Trek movie? Not sure.)
>
> My Granddaughter's house is completely wired. Her
> kids like to impress me by asking Alexa to fart. When she does they
> can't stop laughing. Isn't modern technology wonderful...
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
paul
Jul 29, 2021, 11:49:16 PM7/29/21
to
Carlos E. R. wrote on 30.07.2021 01:23
1. I agree with the OP that Google went about this the wrong way
(just as with "Location" when running Wi-Fi graphical debuggers).
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg>
2. The speech-to-text microphone seems to be coming from this service
<com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox>
Which, unfortunately, is a privacy hole just waiting to be exploited.
3. Luckily, most of the danger (not all though) can easily be disabled.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FmRKqnz/stt01.jpg>
4. It does a ton of tracking, some of which (most?) can be turned off.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrxXxLNJ/stt04.jpg>
5. What I do is first "uninstall" it to the original factory version
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKWZv7Nd/stt02.jpg>
6. Which I periodically do (just to wipe out any data it may have saved).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Kv20Hskj/stt05.jpg>
7. And what I do next is turn off _all_ permissions save for microphone!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhV0Hj1t/stt06.jpg>
8. And, of course, I don't set up Android using my Google Account.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ydcD2RQj/stt03.jpg>
7. In addition, I don't use "Gboard" but I do use "Google Voice Typing".
<https://i.postimg.cc/nr9c70Nd/image.jpg>
8. Which does a lot of useful things but I wish we could replace it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6tTGq4n/stt08.jpg>
If anyone knows how to disable <com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox>
and _still_ get speech-to-text (e.g., for SMS), please let us all know,
as _that_ would be extremely useful from a better privacy perspective.
--
The purposefully helpful adults on this newsgroup provided sufficient detail
to reproduce because they're good people with good hearts and intentions.
> On Android, there is an option for that. My phone does not respond to
> "Hey google", I have to tap the mic icon first.
To Carlos' point that the Google speech recognition software is dangerous,
> "Hey google", I have to tap the mic icon first.
1. I agree with the OP that Google went about this the wrong way
(just as with "Location" when running Wi-Fi graphical debuggers).
<https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg>
2. The speech-to-text microphone seems to be coming from this service
<com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox>
Which, unfortunately, is a privacy hole just waiting to be exploited.
3. Luckily, most of the danger (not all though) can easily be disabled.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FmRKqnz/stt01.jpg>
4. It does a ton of tracking, some of which (most?) can be turned off.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrxXxLNJ/stt04.jpg>
5. What I do is first "uninstall" it to the original factory version
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKWZv7Nd/stt02.jpg>
6. Which I periodically do (just to wipe out any data it may have saved).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Kv20Hskj/stt05.jpg>
7. And what I do next is turn off _all_ permissions save for microphone!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhV0Hj1t/stt06.jpg>
8. And, of course, I don't set up Android using my Google Account.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ydcD2RQj/stt03.jpg>
7. In addition, I don't use "Gboard" but I do use "Google Voice Typing".
<https://i.postimg.cc/nr9c70Nd/image.jpg>
8. Which does a lot of useful things but I wish we could replace it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6tTGq4n/stt08.jpg>
If anyone knows how to disable <com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox>
and _still_ get speech-to-text (e.g., for SMS), please let us all know,
as _that_ would be extremely useful from a better privacy perspective.
--
The purposefully helpful adults on this newsgroup provided sufficient detail
to reproduce because they're good people with good hearts and intentions.
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